LaserSoft Imaging

Hello,

I have been shooting some 6x12's and attempting to scan them with my coolscan9000 and Silverfast AI studio 6.6.

Because the biggest negative size the scanner will allow me to capture is 6x9, I have to scan two 6x7's and stitch them together. The problem I am having is in getting the scanner and software to behave consistently. I am using the medium format glass negative carrier.

How do I force the scanner to use the exact same exposure between two scans? I turn off everything auto and save all the settings from one frame and reapply it to the next frame, but the brightness and contrast are always slightly different. It's like the exposure is always just based off the histogram of whatever my crop is, and since the histogram of the left and right sides of my 6x12 are always going to be slightly different, the exposure ends up being different. How is it possible to set some absolute values, i guess of the physical lamp exposure, so that regardless of what the distribution of values on the histogram is I have the EXACT same black levels and white levels and middle grey when I apply the same curves?

Also I might add the strip film offset tool is a confusing pain because the arrow of the cursor points the opposite direction of what you really want. when I shift one frame it moves the next frame automatically. why can't it just move one frame at a time? I want there to be substantial overlap for when I stitch them together.

Thanks for any help!

Hi there

nmcg wrote:How do I force the scanner to use the exact same exposure between two scans? I turn off everything auto and save all the settings from one frame and reapply it to the next frame, but the brightness and contrast are always slightly different. It's like the exposure is always just based off the histogram of whatever my crop is, and since the histogram of the left and right sides of my 6x12 are always going to be slightly different, the exposure ends up being different. How is it possible to set some absolute values, i guess of the physical lamp exposure, so that regardless of what the distribution of values on the histogram is I have the EXACT same black levels and white levels and middle grey when I apply the same curves?

The best way is to create a raw scan of your picture, it will give you unmodified TIFF files of your images, you can then rejoin them together in one file in your favorite editing application and then apply a gamma correction and adjustments.

Raw files can be produced by scannning in 48 bit HDR mode in SilverFast.

Cheers

What is the difference between a 48bit raw file and a regular 48 bit output? They are both 48 bit but one has a really flat curve and is inverted and the other has a nice curve I gave it. Is it not to my advantage to have the general curves I want to work with "baked in" at this point, negating the need for RAW files? And plus in RAW mode then I cannot do any sharpening or grain reduction. I have tried it this way and it does work, but I'm just curious about my previous question.

Hi nmcg

the difference between 48 bit HDR and plain 48 bit is, that the former will produce a raw file (without any corrections and without gamma gradation) and the latter will produce a 48 bit scan including modifications and a gamma curve.

nmcg wrote:Is it not to my advantage to have the general curves I want to work with "baked in" at this point, negating the need for RAW files? And plus in RAW mode then I cannot do any sharpening or grain reduction.

Correct, when you create a raw file you will have the information exactly as it comes from the scanner itself, sharpening and grain reduction and software modifications.

Cheers

Hi Thanks for the quick response but I don't think you answered my question. What advantage is there to doing a 48bit RAW file where I have no control over the gamma, colors, and filter, when I can do a regular 48Bit file with all those things set close to how I want them at the time of the scan?

And if It is better to just do the non-raw 48 files, I need an answer to my original questions about matching the exposures on two sides of a panoramic frame that will be stitched together from a left/right image. Because the solution given was just to do RAW files, but I just can't believe there is no other way to maintain consistency between two frames?

Hi nmcg

nmcg wrote:Hi Thanks for the quick response but I don't think you answered my question. What advantage is there to doing a 48bit RAW file where I have no control over the gamma, colors, and filter, when I can do a regular 48Bit file with all those things set close to how I want them at the time of the scan?

Well, actually you did not ask that question before.

With raw files you have the images as perceived by the scanner itself, pure, no changes nor corrections. Since you want to scan fragments of panoramas to be later rejoined together, you need fragments that match.
Another advantage is that you do not apply any destructive process to your images and can keep the raw files as a "digital original" for archival purposes.

nmcg wrote:And if It is better to just do the non-raw 48 files, I need an answer to my original questions about matching the exposures on two sides of a panoramic frame that will be stitched together from a left/right image. Because the solution given was just to do RAW files, but I just can't believe there is no other way to maintain consistency between two frames?

No, because scanning different parts of an image make them into individual images different from each other, once you apply a correction you apply that to that individual image, compensating for those differences will be much more difficult later.

The way you should do the scanning of panoramas is to scan its parts without corrections nor modifications so they perfectly match during the stitching, after that you can perform any corrections you want.

You might want to try turning off all automatic adjustments in SilverFast options, however you will still have to do the orange mask detection which is performed automatically by NegaFix, one tiny scratch might affect the orange mask detection and produce a slight color shift.

Cheers

I have SIlverast AI studio with multiexposure and I can scan 48 bit HDRi files with my coolscan9000. Can I then take those RAW images directly into photoshop, invert them, and go from there, or do I need some kind of RAW image converter? I can't tell if Silverfast has a RAW image editor or something that is not a part of my software package.

What I have been doing is:

1) 48bit HDRi scan, two peices.

2) bring both pieces into PS and stitch them together, crop & rotate if necessary.

3) Invert

4) Curve adjustment.

This yields moderatly good images but the colors are still a little funky and the gamma just never seems to quite be right. I think this is because there is a weird RAW color profile that is still embedded in the image.

So is this the right way to do it, or is there some sort of RAW converter I should put the images through after I scan them and before I bring them into photoshop?

Also, I am confused as to your previous response:

"
[quote="nmcg"]Is it not to my advantage to have the general curves I want to work with "baked in" at this point, negating the need for RAW files? And plus in RAW mode then I cannot do any sharpening or grain reduction.

Correct, when you create a raw file you will have the information exactly as it comes from the scanner itself, sharpening and grain reduction and software modifications.
"

SO you are saying it IS better for me to do a regular 48 bit scan where I can apply my curves and adjustments at the time of the scan?

Or were you just saying that I am correct in that I cannot make adjustments?

It seems like you said it's better to do non-raw because I have more control but when I have to do any stitching I NEED to do RAW in order to keep things even.

Hi

nmcg wrote:I have SIlverast AI studio with multiexposure and I can scan 48 bit HDRi files with my coolscan9000. Can I then take those RAW images directly into photoshop, invert them, and go from there, or do I need some kind of RAW image converter? I can't tell if Silverfast has a RAW image editor or something that is not a part of my software package.

There is a raw converter from SilverFast called "SilverFast HDR Studio" this will allow you to open your images and work with them

nmcg wrote:This yields moderatly good images but the colors are still a little funky and the gamma just never seems to quite be right. I think this is because there is a weird RAW color profile that is still embedded in the image.

So is this the right way to do it, or is there some sort of RAW converter I should put the images through after I scan them and before I bring them into photoshop?

It is because you need to find and eliminate the orange mask used in negative film stripes.
You also need to apply a gamma curve to your pictures, all these in 16 bit mode and then convert to 8 bit

A better way would be to stich the pieces together and save them as another file without further adjustments, then in SilverFast HDR Studio make the orange mask detection and further corrections.

nmcg wrote:Also, I am confused as to your previous response:
...
SO you are saying it IS better for me to do a regular 48 bit scan where I can apply my curves and adjustments at the time of the scan?
Or were you just saying that I am correct in that I cannot make adjustments?

I was trying to say:

Correct, you can not make adjustments.

nmcg wrote:It seems like you said it's better to do non-raw because I have more control but when I have to do any stitching I NEED to do RAW in order to keep things even.

You asked about the differences and advantages, so I explained to you, it is better to do raw to be able to do a seamless stitch.

Cheers

Hi,

Thanks for the answers I think I understand. Though I'm not quite sure I have it right about the software. To do what you are saying I should do I need to have Silverfast HDR Studio. I have Silverfast Ai Studio. The lasersoft website price calculator will not allow me an upgrade option so it seems like it would cost $457. First of all I just want to be make sure i understand you that to do it right with RAW files I need this software and it can't be done right without it.

Does HDR studio have everything that is included in Ai studio plus the HDR Raw functions enabled? Is it possible to arrange an upgrade or something from what I have to what I need or is it something completely different? Do i really need the studio version ? I like to make my finishing adjustments in Photoshop so would the regular one be necessary?

Hi nmcg

nmcg wrote:To do what you are saying I should do I need to have Silverfast HDR Studio. I have Silverfast Ai Studio. The lasersoft website price calculator will not allow me an upgrade option so it seems like it would cost $457. First of all I just want to be make sure i understand you that to do it right with RAW files I need this software and it can't be done right without it.

To do what you want to achieve, you do not "have to" purchase SilverFast HDR Studio. You can probably obtain similar results using a 16 bit capable image editor, I said it is easier to do it with SilverFast HDR Studio.

nmcg wrote:Does HDR studio have everything that is included in Ai studio plus the HDR Raw functions enabled?

SilverFast HDR Studio does not control the scanner, appart from that it has the same features as Ai Studio to edit your raw pictures

nmcg wrote:Is it possible to arrange an upgrade or something from what I have to what I need or is it something completely different? Do i really need the studio version ? I like to make my finishing adjustments in Photoshop so would the regular one be necessary?

Usually you do not have to pay the full price, since you already have Ai Studio you are probably eligible for a discount. Please contact our sales department here: https://www.silverfast.com/problemreport/en.html?topic=PreSales&sub=prescales_contact

Cheers

Thanks for your help.

Pleasure assisting you!

Cheers