Shadows and colours in slide film - Nikon Scan v Silverfast

[hellototo]

I have been using Silverfast Ai with my Nikon 5000ED for the last year to scan mostly Velvia slides, and have been quite happy with the results. I was never able to get Nikon Scan stable with Mac OS Leopard to do any comparisons. However with the upgrade to Snow Leopard, I have been able to get Nikon Scan working more and have been doing some comparison scans. I used tiffs with no post processing, at 4000dpi.

What was striking was how much better the shadow detail was in Nikon Scan. Whole regions of slides that I had assumed were merely black turned out to be packed with detail. I also realised that the colours in Silverfast were actually over saturated, creating blue tinges on objects. In order to improve the Silverfast scans I downloaded a trial of Ai Studio and experimented with multi-exposure and AACO. I got a little bit of improvement, but still nowhere near Nikon Scan. Post processing can lighten those areas a bit but not bring back the detail. I've attached a very representative sample below (the Silverfast watermark is present because its a demo version, I haven't upgraded to Ai Studio yet).

I would be interested to hear thoughts and comments. Am I missing something in Silverfast? Is this problem specific to Velvia, or slide film in general?

Nikon Scan

nknksl01 sample.jpg (82.97 KiB) Viewed 5972 times

Silverfast Ai Studio with Multi-Exposure and AACO

nksfslme01 sample.jpg (89.06 KiB) Viewed 5972 times

kind regards
Toby

[LSI_Heidorn]

Dear Toby,
from this photo it is a bit hard to judge what's going on...

Could you try to simply scan a HDR 48 Bit image to harddisk, then opening it in a 48 Bit capable Software ( e.g. SF HDR, Photoshop, irfanview, ... ) then apply a very strong gamma like 4.0 ...
Even if the image should look awful in itself you should be able to see whats hidden in the dark tones.
Try to compare the details with the NikonScan image and please give feedback.
We need to see if there IS no shadow detail or if it gets lost in the process...


best regards,

Nils Heidorn, R & D

[hellototo]

Hey Nils

Sorry for my delay in replying.

I scanned as a 48 bit HDR as you suggested and opened in a demo version of SF HDR, pulled the gamma up to 3.0 (wouldn't seem to go any higher).

That process did reveal more detail than was visible in the original, almost comparable to Nikon Scan result. It did produce a few other problems - the shadow detail did some nasty green noise, the overall noise in the picture increased and the highlights blew out. These problems are all somewhat manageable. In any case playing with the gamma revealed shadow detail better than playing with the brightness, levels, shadows etc in Photoshop.

So where in the normal process is this shadow detail getting lost, and how can I get it back? I don't really want to have to scan everything in 48 bit and go through complex post processing to get the shadow detail.

regards
Toby

[LSI_Ketelhohn]

Dear Toby,

Nils has created a special SilverFast Plug-in which allows the use of the lamp brightness setting.
(Options -> special)
It is important to note that this is a test plug-in and the changes will currently not be implemented in the official releases.
But it might help you solve your issues, but any currently planned update will remove the feature again.

IMPORTANT: The first time you start this plug-in you have to enter values into the dialog because there are no basic settings stored.

If you remove the plug-in or install an Update everything will be back to normal.

The plug-in can be downloaded here:
https://www.silverfast.com/download/temp ... n_copy.zip

kind regards
Arne Ketelhohn

[hellototo]

Dear Arne

I have installed the test plug-in and scanned a bunch of slides, including all those I was testing before, and the results are really quite impressive. I am getting the best quality scans I have ever had from my Nikon 5000. Much more shadow detail, and the reduced post processing from better brightness means less noise and less fringing. Also more natural colours.

The ability to vary the lamp brightness is particularly helpful in correcting slightly under or over exposed slides. I haven't had so much improvement with negatives as with slides, but that's probably as expected given the brightness inversion in slides?

Anyway, this looks to me to be a great feature. I hope it becomes part of the next official release! Thanks Nils!

kind regards
Toby

[kimbapooch]

Sorry to barge in. I'm evaluating SF Ai with the 5000ED as well and I saw the QT video on lamp control with Nikon Film scanners. As you allude to the feature seems to be missing in the current version. I'm wondering why the feature was removed and why you are not planning to include it in future releases?

Regards,
Steve Darling

[LSI_Morales]

Dear Steve,

The feature is present in the latest version of SilverFast. Our programmers just needed sometime to program a feature which was provided before by Nikon maid driver (which is not actually in use under Mac).

Cheers

[intercom]

Alejandro -

I saw your post and Alejandro's regarding Nils plugin to adjust lamp brightness, but I went to download the patch and the file is no longer there - http://www.silverfast.com/download/temp ... n_copy.zip.
Can you provide this to me? I have version 6.4 at the present time.

Thanks!

Bob

[LSI_Morales]

Dear Bob,

Version 6.4 is not compatible with the patch presented in the forum, all changes made with the patch have already been implemented into the latest version of SilverFast (6.6.1r7).

If you are interested in upgrading to the latest product generation you can find the information on our online store.

Kind regards

[hassiman]

Dear Alejandro,

I am using a Nikon CoolScan 9000 qand have jsut downloaded the latest version of SilverFast AI. 6.6.2r1 I believe.

Is the 9000's lamp intensity adjustable in this version ( Mac OSX) ???

[LSI_Morales]

Dear Hassiman,

yeah! it should be there, if you open the options/special dialog you should have the option present there.

Cheers

[hassiman]

If you are using IT8 profiles will upping exposure require re-profiling the 9000 to take the change into account?

[hassiman]

Also,

What are the adjustment choices for lamp intensity for the Nikon 9000 SCS? Normal and 2X normal? Does running with extra intensity shorten the service life of the LED source? ( I have not yet re-connected my 9000 so I can't check myself...

[LSI_Morales]

Dear Hassiman

If you are using IT8 profiles will upping exposure require re-profiling the 9000 to take the change into account?

Yes, everytime you change the light source you have to recalibrate to scanner

Cheers

[LSI_Morales]

Dear Hassiman,

What are the adjustment choices for lamp intensity for the Nikon 9000 SCS? Normal and 2X normal?

You will find the lamp adjustment control opening the Options dialogue and selecting the "special" tab.

Does running with extra intensity shorten the service life of the LED source?

I am not really sure about this, perhaps it does.

Cheers