LaserSoft Imaging

Hi,

I have been going crazy trying to figure out how to configure Silverfast AI V6.6's "Frame" settings.

If anyone uses Silverfast and a CoolScan 9000 what I would like is a basic set of parameters for the setting the values for the FRAME tab's "ORIGINAL" , "SCALE%" and "OUTPUT" fields. I am just inteested in setting SF AI so that it will make the highest possible quality 11X14 and 16X20 (or 11X11 & 16X16 from 6X6) from full frame 35mm & 6X6 scans when printed by my Epson 3800 printer.

File size is irrelivant... quality is not.

[/indent]How does one setup the original and scale% input boxes? does one put in 36mm X
24mm for the 35mm full frame?

How does one use the output settings? Do you enter the size of the desired print
output?

As for the other FRAME parameters, I have been told by LaserSoft that the best Q factor is 1.5 But I'm not sure
why and I was wondering if anyone here knows what effect this has.

Given the desired output (print size) what value should "SCREEN" be given?

I have been manually setting the dpi figure at 3600 as Lasersoft told me that this is the true optical resolution of the Nikon 9000... not 4000dpi.

I have tried entering different values into the original/scale% fields as well as the Output fields but they end up changing each time I go to modify a value and I am not sure when and if to lock the fields.

I have tried and tried to find some instructional material that addresses this specific area of the program configuration and I have looked at the vide by Lazersoft called Interface of SFAi for the Frame setting fundamentals. it discusses Scan resolution and scaling but it merely describes the fields and gives no instructions on how they should be used. I have been unable to find this information anywhere and so I hope that someone on this forum might be kind enough to give me some advice as a starting point?

What do I do?

Dear hassiman

You should not touch the Q-Factor and the screen values. They do not have a direct influence on the resolution of the endscan files. Those values are multipliers of a descreening algorithm.

The next thing you should take into account is that you are mixing up mm and inches. The best way to work here is to choose one measure unit and do the conversions beforehand.

By clicking on the measure unit button "inches" next to output values you will see that it changes, you can choose mm so you know exactly the output size in mm.
Or the other option is to leave the units in inches and do the numbers in your head or in a separate piece of paper.

The easiest way to set the scanning resolution is by moving the "dpi" slider to the top optical resolution. The top optical resolution of the scanner is achieved by moving the slider to the one position before the last one to the right. It is important that you leave all other values untouched (scale% or Output). The advantage of this method is that you know you are using the best scanning resolution (best quality) and you know you are not using interpolation. The drawback is that you might not achieve the output resolution exactly and you might have to resize or crop your picture later in postproduction.

A more complicated way is to move the resolution slider to 300 dpi (which is the optimal photographic resolution for prints), then give the desired output size OR the scale in percentage (note that you should only modify either scale or output but not both values at the same time). The advantage here is that you will obtain a picture which is exactly the size of the desired output. The drawback here is that you do not know which resolution is SilverFast actually using or whether it is using interpolation or not (you might not obtain the best quality).

As you put it:

hassiman wrote:File size is irrelivant... quality is not.

You can find our user manual and more documents here:
http://www.silverfast.com/knowledge/


Cheers

Dear Alejandro,

1. Are the "Original" data fields set when the image is scanned as a preview or is this data (here shown as 2.4 & 3.5) a program default or detrmined by the user?
2. The "scale" fields should always read 100%?
3. Are the "Output" data fields set when the image is scanned as a preview or is this data (here shown as 2.4 & 3.5) a program default or detrmined by the user?

4. My Nikon Coolscan 9000 is supposed to have a true optical resolution of 4000 spi but I had been told that it actually has been tested at 3600. Should I manually set the dpi field to 3600 or will this necessitate interpolation? The slider will not yeild a value of 3600... only 4000 Which to use?

If the Original and Output values are not affected or determined by the preview scan of the original image in what order do I input the data in these fields?

Is it a good idea to close the locks by the "Output" fields to constrain the aspect ratio?

My goal is to start with a best quality scan of an uncropped 35mm slide which I wish to print 18" horizontally on an A3 sheet using an Epson 3800 printer set to a resolution of 360.

The scans I have gotten with Silverfast set to 3600 dpi ended up with an image file size of 4948 X 3218 after post processing in LightRoom.

Please advise.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one confused as to settings; the more I read, the less I understand. So if I understand the answer, and looking at SF after doing a reset-to-defaults, the "normal Q-factor" is 1.5 and the screen is 450? At least that's what I see, having done a reset-to-default.
Then, setting the output size for approx. 12X18 for an Epson 2400 or whatever, I get a file size of 269 mb for a 48-->24 scan. This is huge compared to what I get for what I think is a highest quality 16bit scan with Nikon Scan on my LS5000, where what I think are "maximum settings" produces a file of about 125mb. Is this because LS gives me a 24 bit scan, while the best Nikon Scan can do is 16 bit?? It looks like a LS file for 48 bit would be in the order of 650mb.
As the original poster said, I'm looking for a scan which I can print at optimum quality at potential sizes up to 12x18 from a 35mm image.
What I want to understand is what the settings should be to accomplish this. So if my original is approx. 1x1.5, what would my settings be for the screen, for 48-->24 and 48 bits respectively?

Dear Hassiman

I will answer your questions one by one

hassiman wrote:1. Are the "Original" data fields set when the image is scanned as a preview or is this data (here shown as 2.4 & 3.5) a program default or detrmined by the user?

The "original" field is determined by the user, most exactly by the size of your scanning frame, if you resize the frame you will see how the value changes.

hassiman wrote:2. The "scale" fields should always read 100%?

No, it should not always read 100%, you can use any value that you want, but you gotta have in mind that the more variables you put into the equation, the more complex it will be for you to understand what exactly is going on.
That is the reason why I recommended always to alter only one of those values, the easiest way is to move the slider at the bottom to the maximal optical resolution and leave the rest untouched. The maximal optical resolution is achieved by moving the slider to the right limit and then return one step.

If you want to manipulate the "scale" or the "output" fields you should have in mind that you will not see the real scanning resolution or interpolation that SilverFast is doing behind.
To see these values after changing the "scale" or the "output" value you have to press:

In Macintosh:
CTRL key = Optical scanning resolution
CTRL+ Shift = Output resolution (probably using interpolation)

In Windows:
F5 = Optical scanning resolution
F6 = output resolution (most likely interpolated)

hassiman wrote:3. Are the "Output" data fields set when the image is scanned as a preview or is this data (here shown as 2.4 & 3.5) a program default or detrmined by the user?

The "Output" value is the result of "original" x "scale %"

It means is determined by the user, in this case you can give the desired output size and then SilverFast will internally set the scanning resolution and interpolation. (see previous answer)

hassiman wrote:4. My Nikon Coolscan 9000 is supposed to have a true optical resolution of 4000 spi but I had been told that it actually has been tested at 3600. Should I manually set the dpi field to 3600 or will this necessitate interpolation? The slider will not yeild a value of 3600... only 4000 Which to use?

If the slider does not give you 3600 but 4000 then it means that the scanner is capable of 4000, any value between the steps given by the slider will use interpolation as well as the last value of the slider.

hassiman wrote:If the Original and Output values are not affected or determined by the preview scan of the original image in what order do I input the data in these fields?

My goal is to start with a best quality scan of an uncropped 35mm slide which I wish to print 18" horizontally on an A3 sheet using an Epson 3800 printer set to a resolution of 360.

As already mentioned, the more variables you use the more complicated it will be, the order in which you input the data is irrelevant because SilverFast has not performed the endscan yet. However it is important to know that SilverFast has a limit of 32000 lines/side aprox.

You said you want to obtain the best quality out of your pictures. In that case you should use the maximal optical resolution the scanner provides, avoiding any interpolation.
The only way you can be absolutely sure of that is by using optical scanning resolution steps which are given by the steps in the slider without modifying the other values (as already recommended, also the easiest way).

The size of your print and the printer resolution should not be calculated at the scanning stage but later in post-processing. My advice would be to produce the biggest file with the best quality possible, then save that file as a digital negative, then copy this optimal quality file, make the necessary corrections and resizing in the copy of the original, then make your prints.

Dear MinoltaSF6

When you say

MinoltaSF6 wrote:Then, setting the output size for approx. 12X18 for an Epson 2400

Do you actually mean inches, cm, mm, meters, yards?
what was the size of the original artwork you where scanning at the time?

Please bear in mind that if you are talking about inches, and then you have a 35 mm negative you have to do conversions to equivalent input and output values.

MinoltaSF6 wrote:I get a file size of 269 mb for a 48-->24 scan. This is huge compared to what I get for what I think is a highest quality 16bit scan with Nikon Scan on my LS5000, where what I think are "maximum settings" produces a file of about 125mb. Is this because LS gives me a 24 bit scan, while the best Nikon Scan can do is 16 bit?? It looks like a LS file for 48 bit would be in the order of 650mb.

You might have used interpolation at the time which made for a bigger file, if you carefully read my previous posting you will see that modifying the output as well as the scale values will give you different interpolation and scanning resolutions which result in different file sizes.

MinoltaSF6 wrote:I'm looking for a scan which I can print at optimum quality at potential sizes up to 12x18 from a 35mm image.
What I want to understand is what the settings should be to accomplish this. So if my original is approx. 1x1.5, what would my settings be for the screen, for 48-->24 and 48 bits respectively?

24 and 48 bits are the color depth, the scanning resolution and output size should be exactly the same. the screen and Q-Factors have nothing to do with this (Please read my firs answer for a brief explanation).

Again, the resizing, printing resolution and so forth should later be made, if you carefully check your statement you will see that you have an original which is aprox 1x1.5 and you want an output size of aprox. 12x18, that is more than 10 times the size of the original (more like 12 or 13 times).
And if the optimal photographic printing resolution is 300 dpi, then you will have to use about 12 or 13 times the printing resolution which is 300 x 13 = 3900 dpi
That is an interpolated resolution, the scanner will in reality use the next higher optical value (which is your scanner happens to be the highest optical resolution), in this case 4000 dpi and then make an interpolation to 3900 dpi.

If I were you, I would not use any interpolated value but use the optical resolution instead, in this case 4000 dpi.

Dear Hassiman,

I think you are in the good way, in your mail you ask if you should:

hassiman wrote:Leave all the "ORIGINAL" "SCALE%" and "OUTPUT" at default (I take it that the default settings which appear in these fields are determined by the area prescanned.. Correct?)

That's correct, but there is something you have not got quite right. The default settings are determined not by the prescanned area but are determined by the scanning frame that you set on the prescan window (picture).

hassiman wrote:Is it best to close one or both of the "Locks" on "OUTPUT"?

Yes, especially if you wanna change either output or scale values.

hassiman wrote:Leave Q factor at 1.5 or take it up to 2?

How should "SCREEN" be set?

Please do not manipulate any of those two values.

hassiman wrote:When using the CoolScan 9000 slide the DPI up to 4000?

I do not have the CoolScan 9000 connected at my side, hence I can not really tell. But again, move the resolution slider to the outmost right and then return one step to the left!

hassiman wrote:Is this best practice when scanning B&W and Color at 48 bit color/i6 bit and also if scanning for HDR or HDri?

Yes, it is the best possible way, however this will create completely unmodified pictures (like digital negatives).
Bear in mind that you should always save your pictures as TIFF files when using 48/16 bits HDR or 64/32 bits HDRi.

hassiman wrote:Also... is it a good idea to set values for unsharp masking... or is unsharp masking not enabled by default?

It depends on every scanner model and on every picture, that is entirely up to your criteria. But remember when scanning in HDR or HDRi mode you will not be able to use sharping because you are generating unmodified digital files.

It's a pleasure to help

Cheers

Dear Alejandro,

[Just a couple of points that I would like to clear up and I should be good....]


hassiman wrote:

Leave all the "ORIGINAL" "SCALE%" and "OUTPUT" at default (I take it that the default settings which appear in these fields are determined by the area prescanned.. Correct?)

That's correct, but there is something you have not got quite right. The default settings are determined not by the prescanned area but are determined by the scanning frame that you set on the prescan window (picture).

[Alejandro... what you mean here is that the prescan has been done and I have adjsuted the scanning frame to the actual area of the image that is to be scanned... correct? If this is correct then the order in which sizing must be done with SiverFast is all adjustments to DPI - OUTPUT etc. should be made AFTER the prescan has been completed and the scanning frame has been adjusted to encompass the entire area to be scanned... Correct?]


hassiman wrote:

Is it best to close one or both of the "Locks" on "OUTPUT"?

Yes, especially if you wanna change either output or scale values.

So if one wants a print to be 20 inches horizontal then one would place 20,0 in the <--> output field and close the lock next to that field? ]


hassiman wrote:

Leave Q factor at 1.5 or take it up to 2?

How should "SCREEN" be set?

Please do not manipulate any of those two values.

[ I know that the default for Q is 1.5, What is the default setting for "SCREEN"?]

hassiman wrote:

When using the CoolScan 9000 slide the DPI up to 4000?

I do not have the CoolScan 9000 connected at my side, hence I can not really tell. But again, move the resolution slider to the outmost right and then return one step to the left!


hassiman wrote:

Is this best practice when scanning B&W and Color at 48 bit color/i6 bit and also if scanning for HDR or HDri?

Yes, it is the best possible way, however this will create completely unmodified pictures (like digital negatives).
Bear in mind that you should always save your pictures as TIFF files when using 48/16 bits HDR or 64/32 bits HDRi.

[ Alejandro... You noticed that I asked about setting the output size for a specific print size. I am a bit up in the air about best practice here. Is it your opinion that to get the maximun quality from all scans then one should scan 48-bit color and leave ORIGINAL - SCALE% and OUTPUT settings at the values that appear after the sizing frame has been set on the prescanned image and then just move the DPI slider all the way to the right and then back one step.. then adust the image if necessary ( if not using HDR) and then perform the final scan? ]

[Also... if one uses control reset to reset Silverfast does this also reset to default the IT8 target adjustments that had been set in the CMS settings page so that the program must again be pointed to that IT8 calibration file?]

[ I always save my scan files to TIFF... but I was wondering.... Can Silverfast HDR/HDRi Tiff files be opened and work on in Photoshop CS4 or Adobe LightRoom? Can they be converted to Adobe DNG files?]

Thanks so very much...

Dear hassiman,

hassiman wrote:[Alejandro... what you mean here is that the prescan has been done and I have adjsuted the scanning frame to the actual area of the image that is to be scanned... correct? If this is correct then the order in which sizing must be done with SiverFast is all adjustments to DPI - OUTPUT etc. should be made AFTER the prescan has been completed and the scanning frame has been adjusted to encompass the entire area to be scanned... Correct?]

Yes it's correct, first prescan then draw scanning frame around the desired scanning area, adjust settings and finally scan.

hassiman wrote:So if one wants a print to be 20 inches horizontal then one would place 20,0 in the <--> output field and close the lock next to that field? ]

No, you have to close the locks before applying any changes.

hassiman wrote:[ I know that the default for Q is 1.5, What is the default setting for "SCREEN"?]

I do not know, that value is different from scanner to scanner. If you have changed that value, you can then reset your preferences and leave SilverFast with the standard factory settings. To do this please use the "service dialogue" which can be started using the SilverFast Launcher.

hassiman wrote:[ Alejandro... You noticed that I asked about setting the output size for a specific print size. I am a bit up in the air about best practice here. Is it your opinion that to get the maximun quality from all scans then one should scan 48-bit color and leave ORIGINAL - SCALE% and OUTPUT settings at the values that appear after the sizing frame has been set on the prescanned image and then just move the DPI slider all the way to the right and then back one step.. then adust the image if necessary ( if not using HDR) and then perform the final scan? ]

Yes, you got it absolutely right!

hassiman wrote:Also... if one uses control reset to reset Silverfast does this also reset to default the IT8 target adjustments that had been set in the CMS settings page so that the program must again be pointed to that IT8 calibration file?

No, SilverFast will reset any changes you have made in the CMS or options dialogue, the only changes that will be reset are those you have made to the image in prescan.

hassiman wrote:I always save my scan files to TIFF... but I was wondering.... Can Silverfast HDR/HDRi Tiff files be opened and work on in Photoshop CS4 or Adobe LightRoom? Can they be converted to Adobe DNG files?

Yes, they can be opened by both programs.

Dear Alejandro,

hassiman wrote:
So if one wants a print to be 20 inches horizontal then one would place 20,0 in the <--> output field and close the lock next to that field? ]

No, you have to close the locks before applying any changes.


So adjust the pre-scan frame area, THEN place the desired horizontal length into OUTPUT field (which will then set the vertical output value) THEN [b]close BOTH locks and [b]THEN adjust the DPI slider and LAST before scanning adjust image for color and curves?




hassiman wrote:

[ I know that the default for Q is 1.5, What is the default setting for "SCREEN"?]


I do not know, that value is different from scanner to scanner. If you have changed that value, you can then reset your preferences and leave SilverFast with the standard factory settings. To do this please use the "service dialogue" which can be started using the SilverFast Launcher.

So do a reset while holding the CONTROL key?



hassiman wrote:
[ Alejandro... You noticed that I asked about setting the output size for a specific print size. I am a bit up in the air about best practice here. Is it your opinion that to get the maximun quality from all scans then one should scan 48-bit color and leave ORIGINAL - SCALE% and OUTPUT settings at the values that appear after the sizing frame has been set on the prescanned image and then just move the DPI slider all the way to the right and then back one step.. then adust the image if necessary ( if not using HDR) and then perform the final scan? ]


Yes, you got it absolutely right!

So in your opinion up-rezing or up-sizing of the final image is best done in post scan processing with Lightroom or PhotoShop?



hassiman wrote:

Also... if one uses control reset to reset Silverfast does this also reset to default the IT8 target adjustments that had been set in the CMS settings page so that the program must again be pointed to that IT8 calibration file?


No, SilverFast will reset any changes you have made in the CMS or options dialogue, the only changes that will be reset are those you have made to the image in prescan.

Did you mean to say "SilverFast will NOT reset any changes you have made in the CMS or options dialogue" when the reset button and CONTROL key is pressed?


Thanks,

Rich

Dear Hassiman,

hassiman wrote:So adjust the pre-scan frame area, THEN place the desired horizontal length into OUTPUT field (which will then set the vertical output value) THEN [b]close BOTH locks and [b]THEN adjust the DPI slider and LAST before scanning adjust image for color and curves?

When I said "you have to close the locks before applying any changes" I really mean "any changes". In other words before changing any values in the output field. As a matter of fact you should always leave the locks closed "YES, ALWAYS".

hassiman wrote:So do a reset while holding the CONTROL key?

No, I mean by using the service dialogue which can be started from the SilverFast Launcher, (see next picture) note the small button with the tools next to the long starting button

hassiman wrote:So in your opinion up-rezing or up-sizing of the final image is best done in post scan processing with Lightroom or PhotoShop?

Yes

hassiman wrote:Did you mean to say "SilverFast will NOT reset any changes you have made in the CMS or options dialogue" when the reset button and CONTROL key is pressed?

No. I mean SilverFast will not reset any changes you have made in the CMS dialogue if you use either the "alt" or "shift" keys to undo your changes in the picture.