Reference Files/Targets Included with Ai6 & Studio

[tdkdesign]

I've looked through the product area and don't find information stating whether or not the standard It/8 Kodak target (for 35mm) included with Silverfast 6 Ai or the Studio version is a reflective target or a transmissive target or both. Nor, do I see whether or not the software/target reference files arfe included.

What prompted the question was in looking at the ordering area for the CD version of Studio where one has the option to order other IT/8 Kodak targets but the software (reference files for them) is not included. Why would anyone want a target without a reference file/software?

I want to make sure of what exactly ships with Ai 6 and Studio so when I place an order, I can get everything I want at once and not have to place another ofder because I found something missing I might have expected. I was waiting for this upgrade (read my earlier posts) and now it's time to order provided I understand what's included. Thanks for any comments.

TDK

[degrub]

The reference files are txt files that the IT8 calibration software uses to figure out how the scanner sees the standard color patches. THey are freely available for download from SF or the priducer's website (Kodak for example)

Generally, the IT8 calibration software is an add on option to whatever version of SF that you purchase. Check out the "pricing" page for your scanner. You can order it as a package or separately. It is ussually not included by default.THe target will be included with the IT8 option purchase. Depending on the scanner (film or flatbed) you will get either type of target. IF you have a flatbed that can scan slides, you will need to specify which one you want or purchase the additional film target. You will likely get a reflective target by default. Call the sales office or email the sales office before you order to be sure.

Frank

[tdkdesign]

Okay, I see that now on the download tab. There are scads of them. . . .wonder which ones apply (even within the format/type one is using)?

TDK

[degrub]

Look on the target. There will be a data and lot number and type. Match that to the equivalent code.txt file For example kodak reflective target 2000 (year) : 08 (month or lot) R1 (reflective) would use reference file R1200008.txt

Frank

[tdkdesign]

This implies that there are a number of files for the same target type (say transmissive) film emulsion (say Ektachromes) differing by dates and reference data. Let's say for the Minolta Scanner I will use (Elite 5400), I want to calibrate for Fuji Velvia/Provia/Astia and I order the Studio version and request a transmissive target with regard to at least one target included with the Silverfast purchase. Lasersoft would likely send along a Kodak target. Am I to assume then that all the E6 Kodak reversal emulsions are to be profiled with one of xxx dated versions of the "same" or one fits all Kodak targets? The reason I mention this is that scanning through the downloads, I saw some from Wolf ***** (who sells his own stuff on (Coloraid.de?) and some from Lasersoft etc. So far I have not figured our what the distinctions are. Lets' say I shoot a lot of E100G or E100GX and then I shoot a ton of soem other Kodak emulsion far less saturated and say it's 400 speed etc. etc. It would appear we profile the same with one Kodak target and ref. file (seems odd).

On the other hand, I also see with Wolf ***** and Lasersoft there appears to be one 35mm transmissive target type for Fuji films (Provia) which is to cover all the formerly noted Fuji emulsions? I am just asking the questions guys. Thre's no need to spend money twice for the same thing if I can find the right and premium product in the first place.

Thanks for any comments. I'm sure I will get much sharper at this one I start experimenting.

TDK

[Junebug]

Hi TDK...

I understand what you are trying to do. You are in the cloud of confusion and mystery that side tracked me at the start too.

We want to get the best possible final results we can and use Silverfast to do it. In our world, we are working with a variety of lighting situations, exposures, emulsions...

But Silverfast and your Scanner see each of our images pretty much the same way. "Here's another piece of something inbetwen my light source and my sensors"

IT-8 calibration means simply:

1. Having a known color source (IT-8 transparency or print)

2. Getting it into Silverfast by scanning...

3. Letting Silverfast compare what colors it actually received to known values supplied in a text file generated previously by an ultra high end calibrated scan.

4. Silverfast then builds a custom profile based on and correcting any minute differences it finds.

IT-8 calibrtion is just letting yor scanner know that when it sees a color of X value that on this scanner it is really X plus or minus a minute degree.

Therefore on a film or flatbed scanner, calibrating once and regularly with any IT-8 target will give you a good custom profile and truer final images with your scanner.

It is not necessary to have a whole host of targets for every emulsion that you use.

Hope this makes sense. I'm not sure if I'm making this any clearer for you, but at some point the light will turn on.

Yours truly,

Jb.

[tdkdesign]

Yes, it's a long sorting out process...however, I still think one should use Kodak targets for their emulsions and Fuji targets for their film particularly since Velvia is so tough get good exposure with in high contrast shots anyway.

No one has convinced me yet that I can get by with Getag Macbeth for monitor profiling, Silverfast for scanner profiling and just float on the idea of profiling the printer. . . .and if you don't do all three, then you have to either buy up to get an integrated solution or do custom profiling for the printer with rfeflective scans. I'll know in about two weeks when all the hardware arrives and then I'll post something. By the way, the printer is an HP Designjet 30...just try to find that one on anyones list of supported devices for profiling/calibrating.

Thanks for the replies folks.

TDK

[degrub]

WHen you are IT8 profiling, you are profiling for the dye set used in that class of film. Thus, almost all of the E6 films will be very similar in how they pass light. Kodachrome is the same way, with the exception that there were changes in the dyes every so often (and some even got varnished !)

You can get a hand profiled target for some of the Fuji films and it might be worth it if the general target does not get you close enough. If i remember correctly, they were about 400-800 $ US and took a while to get. Of course you could take a photo under controlled lighting or representative lighting with a Gretag Macbeth Color match targer and supplement the IT8 profile with your own addtional curve adjustments.

As far as the printer goes, you'll need some expensive hardware to make accurate color measurements for each type of paper. The scanner based solutions mostly work ok, but it depends on how demanding you want to be of the printer's representation of you image.

Frank

[tdkdesign]

Yes, I'm well aware of some of the problems folks are having scanning Kodachromes...and I have my share of old Europe trips slides from that era (early 70's). I think I'll work with the scenario I've described for the moment. Most of my stuff is architectural photography...exteriors of buildings I designed or shot and models where the lighting has been controlled. Once I reach some kind of disatisfaction level, I'll have to spring for Gretags higher end stuff. I have no reason to go beyond RGB profiling with the noted injet anyway and if there comes the day I could ever sell anything, I could then justify a RIP and spectro. The eyes are good so we will see here in the next few weeks what works.

I think one can get Provia targets for far less than $400-800 even through Lasersoft.

TDK

[degrub]

B & H has the Kodachrome target if you need one.

Frank