Negative to Positive scans

[Ellen Rutchick]

I purchased SilverFast 8 SE to use with my Epson V750. I previously used the older version of SilverFast AI that came bundled with my scanner.

I'm scanning 120 size b/w film negatives. My SilverFast settings are Negative and 48-24 Bit. I want to scan the negative and then work on the scanned file in Photoshop. The Preview shows the image as a positive on the screen, just like the older version of Silverfast did. However, the final scan file comes out as a negative, rather than a positive, image.

Can you help me resolve this problem? Thanks!

Ellen Rutchick

[LSI_Ketelhohn]

Dear customer,

Please make sure you really did select 48->24 Bit. What you describe is normal for the HDR(i) RAW archive formats.
These are saved unchanged for later processing in SilverFast HDR (Studio).

Kind regards,
Arne Ketelhohn.

[PhotoMike]

My scans are also coming out negative. I am trying to batch scan my color and b-w negatives to RAW images to edit in Adobe Lightroom. My preference is to batch all my files for editing later as needed. Unfortunately, I'm just getting started with this software and finding all the instructions not suited to my goals.

[LSI_Ketelhohn]

Yes, but that behavior is correct. The negatives are the raw data.
If you want processed images you need to select a processed output like described above.

Kind regards,
Arne Ketelhohn.

[PhotoMike]

I thought I had done this, in this case selecting a Kodak Gold Max 400, but it remained negative in the file (positive in the preview). Is there further setting I am missing? Using Studio SE 8.8.

Also, is it required to purchase Silverfast HDR to complete the RAW processing or can Lightroom be used from the processed output to adjust the RAW images?

[LSI_Ketelhohn]

Dear customer,

That would happen if you select any of the HDR(i) RAW image types.
These are archive file types for later processing in SilverFast HDR (Studio).
I can not tell how well they can be processed in Lightroom as I have never tried that.

Kind regards,
Arne Ketelhohn

[tim48v]

So we have to scan b&w negatives in color? Seriously? The documentation (such as it is) implies otherwise.

Why doesn't the software figure this out when I selected Ilford 400?

What I see in the prescan window, should be what ends up in saved file.

Is there a detailed manual anywhere? All I can find are the silly 15 page marketing fluff files. And no, I'm not wasting my time on videos. Give me a pdf that explains EVERYTHING and let me search it.

[LSI_Ketelhohn]

Dear customer,

No, you can scan them in greyscale (16->8 Bit).
This is not an automatic selection because there are quite some people who scan their B&W images as RGB files to preserve the blue/green hint some of these films show.

Our documentation PDFs and tutorial movies are available in our download area.

Kind regards,
Arne Ketelhohn.

[andrewwross]

I, too, would like for Silverfast to save HDR RAW scans from negatives as *positives*. I've been shooting negatives for years, and every time I do, I know that my final output will be a positive – whether darkroom or digital print. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in shooting negatives to then produce positive prints!

What has previously been described as proper behavior by Silverfast to keep a negative as a negative makes no sense. If that's the case, why have an option for negative vs. positive? And why have non-HDR RAW scans of "negatives" actually produce a positive? If you open your HDR RAW images in Studio SE, do you work with them as negatives, or as positives? Because locking the rest of us into a format that only works well in Studio SE makes no sense.

For those of use that use Lightroom (or Camera RAW in Photoshop), keeping the HDR RAW scan as a negative is a major annoyance. I appreciate how LSI staff might use nothing but their own products, but Lightroom and Photoshop are used by a large percentage of photographers, including those who scan film. And currently the only way to work with an HDR RAW scan is to reverse the curve (black = white, white = black). Unfortunately, that then means every slider for tone adjustment acts in *reverse*. This is a real pain!

There is a simple fix. Give us the option to scan our negatives into positive files when using HDR RAW. Maybe this is an option in preferences. Or maybe, just maybe, selecting "negative" means we want to invert our file into a positive, just as happens in all other scans besides HDR RAW. Those who want to scan negatives as *negatives* can use the "positive" scan, as currently both of these options DO THE SAME THING with HDR RAW.

Please, please make some sort of change to accommodate those of us who want to use HDR RAW to then edit in Lightroom or Photoshop. I upgraded to a new version of Silverfast and went with Studio SE because I wanted to be able to scan my negatives as DNG (I also purchased additional licenses for my school). Give us Lightroom/Photoshop users what we want – the ability to use HDR RAW to scan negatives into POSITIVES.

[LSI_Ketelhohn]

Dear user,

The HDR(i) RAW scans are unchanged and unprocessed archive files. They behave exactly in the intended fashion. This behavior will not be changed.


Kind regards,
Arne

[Kapelonis]

OK, I understand that "negative is the RAW file", etc... BUT there is a problem with the software interface: two opposite selections for "Select material to scan" (Positive OR Negative) give the same (NEGATIVE) "RAW product". UNLESS (!!!) you select a NON HDR format for color/bit output...
I lost about 4-5 working hours to "discover" it...

[LSI_Ketelhohn]

Dear user,

No that is not an issue. It is exactly what is supposed to happen. The HDR RAW formats are unchange files. The data from the scanner is a negative image and a HDR RAW file will always save it as such. Switching to Negative mode only allows you to enter the film material so this information is already available when processing the files later in SilverFast HDR Studio.


Kind regards,
Arne

[Mr Chris]

So, after reading this thread & listening to your customers, they seem to be requesting an option for the raw data storage. a simple positive/negative option. what I am hearing from you is NO, it will not be an option. Is this to keep SilverFast HDR studio a proprietary program for raw data use?
I am new to this negative scan process since I purchased this to be used for suitcases of family negatives that need to be digitized. It appears that there is less versatility if one chooses Epson and SilverFast to mass store volumes of negatives. I do agree with other customers, if versatility is not an option that should be noted somewhere. To discover this after purchase appears to be deceitful, I have only just started using the SilverFast program and see some basic problems with the dust and scratch removal process. I am new to this and do not wish to make a career from this family endeavor.
My advice to all users would be to comment about these limitations in review sections of major carriers in order to get the word to unsuspecting consumers. Also challenge the top reviewers that rate these products.
looking forward to your reply.


Kind Regards,
Chris

[LSI_Ketelhohn]

Dear Chris,

there seems to be a misunderstanding.
There is no .raw data output because scanners do not deliver that kind of data. They use a line sensor that delivers direct RGB data. They do not have a sensor like a digital camera which's raw data requires conversion to RGB.
HDR(i) RAW files are the actual unprocessed scanner data. These files are no proprietary. They can be opened with any imaging software. Most software simply is not prepared for easy conversion of image data stored in a device color space easily.

Kind regards
Arne

[Jossie]

Dear Chris,

may I add a few items for clarity.

The HDRi format of SilverFast is somewhat of a misnomer. It is the data as delivered from the scanner (as Arne Ketelhohn wrote) with no image processing applied by SilverFast. It is not the real raw data from the detector, however, since the firmware of the scanner does some basic image processing the user is not aware of, and that cannot be influenced. SilverFast can store these data in multi-page TIF format and you can, as Arne Ketelhohn wrote, use any other software capable of reading TIF files to handle them. So it is indeed suitable for archiving. The information, which makes the difference between the HDRiRAW and the HDRi format is in the metadata, which save the image processing information done with SilverFast. So this is a propriety part since it cannot be easily used by other software. It is not necessary for archival purposes.

However, and here is the caveat: There is no other software which can make direct use of the IR-channel of the HDRi(RAW) images, i.e. the scratch removal has to done with SilverFast HDR. You can extract the IR-channel, no problem, but then what do you do with it?

Regards

Hermann-Josef