CMS: Different colors in Photoshop CS2

[redrebel]

I notice some color difference in the Preview from Silverfast and the final output in Photoshop.

The weird thing is that if I view the silverfast output using Canons Zoombrowser (provided with 350D camera) or with Arcsoft then the images look the same as in the Silverfast Preview.....

The images in Photoshop look a bit warmer (yellow/green) it is espacially visable in gray tones (concrete).

I checked also if there is a difference (there isn't) between:
- calling Silverfast from Photoshop and,
- starting/scanning Silverfast stand alone

After setting up CMS (silverfast Ai Studio) correctly there is no visable difference in both scan methods, however in both situations the images look a bit warmer in Photoshop. Like I said in both Zoombrowser and Arcsoft the images look identical to the preview in Silverfast, only Photoshop CS2 differs...

I have used Adobe Gamma to calibrate my monitor, but tomorow I get a Monaco Optix XR...

Some help would be appreciated, since I am struggeling for weeks now....

My settings are:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PHOTOSHOP SETTINGS

Working Spaces
- RGB: Adobe RGB(1998)
- CMYK: U.S.Web Coated (SWOP) v2
- Gray: Dot Grain 20%
- Spot: Dot Grain 20%

Color Management Policies
- RGB: Preserve Embedded Profiles
- CMYK: Preserve Embedded Profiles
- Gray: Preserve Embedded Profiles
Profile Mismatches: Ask When Opening: Y Ask When Pasting: Y
Missing Profiles: Ask When Opening Y

Conversion Options
- Engine: Microsoft ICM
- Intent: Perceptual
Use Black Point Compensation: Y Use Dither (8-bit/channel images): Y

Advanced Controls
- Desaturate Monitor Colors By: 20%: No
- Blend RGB Colors Using Gamma 1.00: No

SILVERFAST SETTINGS (WHEN CALLED FROM PHOTOSHOP)
Colour Management
- Input -> Internal: <None> grayed out
- Internal -> Monitor: Automatic
- Internal -> Output: <RGB>

Profiles for ICM
- Scanner (Reflective): <None> grayed out
- Scanner (Transperancy): <CanoScan9950F Negative(W)> grayed out
- Internal: Adobe RGB (1998)
- Grey: <None>
- Output/Printer: U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) v2 Grayed out
- Rendering Intent: Perceptual

Embedded ICC Profiles
- Embed ICC profile: Y
- Profile to embed: Adobe RGB (1998) Grayed out
Plug & Play CMYK: No CMYK Grayed out

SILVERFAST SETTINGS (WHEN USED STAND ALONE)
Colour Management
- Input -> Internal: <None> grayed out
- Internal -> Monitor: <ICM>
- Internal -> Output: <RGB>

Profiles for ICM
- Scanner (Reflective): <None> grayed out
- Scanner (Transperancy): <CanoScan9950F Negative(W)> grayed out
- Internal: Adobe RGB (1998)
- Grey: <None>
- Output/Printer: U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) v2 Grayed out
- Rendering Intent: Perceptual

Embedded ICC Profiles
- Embed ICC profile: Y
- Profile to embed: Adobe RGB (1998) Grayed out
Plug & Play CMYK: No CMYK Grayed out

Scanner settings
- Windows -> Control Panel -> Scanner & Camera -> Adobe1998

Display settings
- Windows -> Control Panel -> Display -> Color management, icc active

[LSI_Noack]

Dear redrebel

what happens if you deactivate the monitor part of the ICM in SilverFast:
i.e. if Internal>Monitor is set to NONE?

Best regards
Sonny Noack
- manager tech support, LSI AG -

[RAG]

You might try increasing the "High resolution prescan" value from 1x to 2x as shown in the screen shot below.
<img src="/img/forum/options.gif">

[redrebel]

Well I did some experiments, sory that it took some time:
- With ICM enabled or not, the preview is never exactly the same as in Photoshop CS2. In Photoshop the images look a bit warmer ~greener/yellow
- The differences between applications eg Photoshop CS2 and Canons Zoombrowser, are caused by the fact that Zoombrowser doesnt display the RGB images correctly. There are only diffrences when viewing RGB files, not sRGB... I think this is no bug
- Changing the "High resolution prescan" seems to improve things slightly, but the differences are to big to overcome

SF preview, no icm


SF output, no icm


SF preview icm


SF output icm


Images 1,3 are previews and 2,4 are outputs from Silverfast, all images sRGB..


I don't consider it as a hughe problem, but I can not explain these differences....

The differences are best visable in the concrete floor on the right.


Best regards,
Red

[redrebel]

My problem is still under investigation at lasersoft but I think I am quite close to the cause of these problems.

It has nothing to do with my monitor profile, but with the way Silverfast uses the "Profiles for ICM->Scanner Transparency/Reflective)" profiles.

When I scan a print there is NO visable difference between the SF preview and output in Photoshop (assuming correct use of colour space etc..). But as soon I scan negatives, the trouble starts.

When I scan reflective materials, SF has different profiling options:
Colour management:
- Input - Internal: Image Colour Matching (ICM)

Profiles for ICM
- Scanner reflective: Canoscan 9950F Reflective (W)
- Internal: Adobe RGB(1998)

However when I scan Transperant negatives, SF disables the options:
Colour management:
- Input - Internal: None (grayedout)

Profiles for ICM
- Scanner reflective: Canoscan 9950F Negative (W) but grayedout!!
- Internal: Adobe RGB(1998)

I am pretty sure this is the problem, because when I set the "Colour management->Input - Internal" option to "none" when scanning reflective materials, I get the same difference between the preview and the final output.

So the remaining questions is, why does SF disable the "Colour management->Input - Internal" option as soon I wan't to scan a transparent negative. Even when setting up a transparent positive scan, the "Colour management->Input - Internal" is active again and the "Canoscan 9950F Positive (W)" can be selected.

I don't think it has anything to do with IT8 targets, because al named scanner profiles are the default profiles (Canoscan 9950F Reflective (W), Canoscan 9950F Positive (W), Canoscan 9950F Negative (W))..... so why should SF accept all manufacturer profiles except the one needed for negatives?

[redrebel]

This problem is confirmed by the testing department of Lasersoft and an update will be available soon.

Regards

[mccarvill]

I am having the same problem described above. Is a fix available? I'm using SF 6.4.4r6a WinXP

Thanks

[BobF]

Apparently there hasn't been an update to fix this problem because I posted a question earlier today about the same issue. Glad to see these guys are on top of their game.

The difference you're seeing between the preview scan in SF and what you see in PS has to do with the way your scanner sees colours. It's really no different from how a print will look different with and without a proper paper profile. In order to resolve it, you need to calibrate your scanner with an IT8 target and then once the image is opened in PS, use Assign Profile to assign your scanner's calibration profile to the image which will adjust the colours.

If the Scanner>Reflective or Scanner>Transparency options were available in CMS, I believe choosing your scanner's calibration profile from the dropdown list would do the correction automatically.