SilverFast DC Pro

[mhgreene]

Any update on the release date of DC Pro?

Am I correct in thinking that DC Pro will be able to handle RAW files scanned to disk with Ai 6 and RAW files from the Eos 10D?

Thanks,
Mike

[ilyons]

Mike,

LaserSoft folk might answer you but unfortunately the rest of us who know the answer to your questions can't because we signed an NDA.

[President_LSI]

SilverFast DCPro Release

We are expecting SilverFast DCPro to be out some time later this coming week!

[sklocke]

Hello,

I am just wondering if you have already a "fixed" release date in mind, the one indicated by the President himself, did not really happen, I guess.

In the unlikely case that you have a shortage of 1ds Testers, then I am quite prepared to help (for free).

Regards,
Stefan Klocke


The President wrote
>Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2003 7:20 pm Post subject: SilverFast DCPro >Release
>
>SilverFast DCPro Release
>
>We are expecting SilverFast DCPro to be out some time later this >coming week!

[President_LSI]

SilverFast DCPro Release

As always bugs and last minute enhancements create unforseable delays. But I am impatient myself now to get SF DCPro out. So expect it any day now! Check our website!

best regards

Karl-Heinz Zahorsky
President
LaserSoft Imaging

[sklocke]

>>So expect it any day now! Check our website!

Thank you, I will check it.

Stefan

[President_LSI]

SilverFast DCPro-VLT ist here now!

SilverFast DCPro is finally here now. We added quite more functionality to it. So it was worth the delay! You will especially enjoy SilverFast DCPro as the first software, that has biult the QuickTime movies, explaining the sofware, into each of the dialogs!

[sklocke]

Hello,

>SilverFast DCPro is finally here now. We added quite more functionality >to it.

Thank you, I got the demo yesterday. I have to explain that I am a PhaseOne DSLR User (Your main competitor? for the D-SLR software). This is quite a change and will take some time evaluate.

My interest in Silverfast came from a the desire to get more control on the noise reduction, sometimes too much Chroma noise reduction, that can not be reduced enough in P1.

I can already see that the chroma noise reduction in SF is close to zero?

From a workflow point of view, it seems quite a challenge for me to get used to the SF way of working,

For example to evaluate a new set of RAW images, access to a quick 100% preview is for me quite vital. I found that sort of with the VLT, but that does not work in the main window? The Quicktime suggests that one can zoom with prescan in (making the box smaller, (why can one not draw a box with the mouse, instead of making the large one smaller, getting to the edge of the frame where the marching ants are is difficult), but for my 1ds files that zoom factor is far less than 100% (MAC and PC by the way).

Setting white balance is another thing that I have not yet figured out, the slider I found of course, but can I "click" a white balance as well?

I have to spend more time with it, any maybe I missed a tutorial?, that would take a "difficult" image and explained step by step how to get the most out of it.

One of my examples, (ISO640, dark skin) I tried gave at least an interesting result, due to the color noise however, it requires a tool like NeatImage or GrainSurgery to get a level of cleanness, that comes sort of for free with PhaseOnes DSLR (at the expense of saturation in the Phase one case).


Regards,
Stefan Klocke

[ilyons]

Hello,

>SilverFast DCPro is finally here now. We added quite more functionality >to it.


I can already see that the chroma noise reduction in SF is close to zero?

It would interesting to know camera you are using. I find that Canon D30/60 and 10D images are a lot more noise free than Phase One. However, I must be honest and say that I do NOT like Phase One software at all. I suppose that makes me biased

From a workflow point of view, it seems quite a challenge for me to get used to the SF way of working,

To keep it simple in your head you need to separate the VLT side of things from the image editing side. The Job Manager is an excellent way of batch processing. In fact I will often simply drag images from the VLT overview straight to JM. This means that the conversion from raw is not carried out until the full job is run.

The Quicktime movies help a lot but there are still important gaps. By this I mean that some start at a point that suggests they are a follow-on from a movie you should have already watched. I can't find the one that "seems" to preceed these. The Job movie is particularily poor in this regard.

For example to evaluate a new set of RAW images, access to a quick 100% preview is for me quite vital. I found that sort of with the VLT, but that does not work in the main window? The Quicktime suggests that one can zoom with prescan in (making the box smaller, (why can one not draw a box with the mouse, instead of making the large one smaller, getting to the edge of the frame where the marching ants are is difficult), but for my 1ds files that zoom factor is far less than 100% (MAC and PC by the way).

I've tried for weeks to figure how to obtain a high quality preview can be obtained without converting the image. It seems that it's not possible even though we know that the original CRW file (Canon) contains a high quality JPEG that could be used. Unfortunately I think that JPEG can only be got at after conversion. I'm seeing something similar on other conversion apps.

Setting white balance is another thing that I have not yet figured out, the slider I found of course, but can I "click" a white balance as well?

It is a lot better than it was but I'm still not convinced that it is in fact altering white balance as we know it. The effect is global and more like applying a warming or cooling filter. That is NOT the same as white balance. I find that it does a much better job of adding a warming or cooling effect than it does of neutralising the white balance of an image. I find that the eyedropper tools do a much better job. OK I'm spoiled because Adobe ACR does it the way my head tells me should be done.

BTW: the demo doesn't have IT8 enabled and this makes it more difficult to get the WB right. With IT8 enabed and a good ICC profile for you camera it is much easier to nail the WB.

I have to spend more time with it, any maybe I missed a tutorial?, that would take a "difficult" image and explained step by step how to get the most out of it.

The QT movies are emant to do that but as mentioned above they don't "flow". Everything IS covered it's the transition between them that is missing. Think - "I was there - now I'm here - how did I get from there to here?"


I like SilverFast a lot and am familiar with the the majority of the workflow but VLT does my head in. Every time I think I've figured it turns round and bites me. The absence of a very quick to access high quality preview severely limits its usefulness in my opinion. That preview might exist but I cannot find how to get it.


Ian

[President_LSI]

SilverFast DCpro Full Screen Preview

You can bring the Full screen preview up by using "Space Bar-Click".

See the movie hoe easy that is:

http://www.silverfast.com/showmovie/en. ... review.mov

[bushfoto]

I find the quality of the raw conversion of my D1X excellent. I've been running the beta and the color with the it-8 calibration is dead on and the files seem to have less noise in the shadows than the Adobe Raw files I've been using. While I haven't timed the conversion process, it seems in line with the other converter software. No problems with the raw conversion that I can see.

I have difficulty getting VLT to run with Nikon raw NEF files, looks like a memory issue reading thumbnails. I was hoping that would be fixed in the final version, but the demo does it as well. I have to make sure I'm in a folder that has fewer than 15 NEF files in it. Once the files have been read once everything is fine (either by breaking the folders down into 15 file chunks or reading, forced quit restarting, reading, forced quit restarting, like they're being cached and once they're cached everything works well. With over 20,000 raw files, breaking them down into small folders to read is really not an option. If the files haven't been cached and are in a directory with more than 15 or 20 files, the application simply hangs and has to be forced quit and restarted (I'm on Mac OSX 10.2). I don't think VLT will replace a high end browser like Iview or Cumulus, but it's a handy way to select the image and get it into the job manager so it really does need to work. The resolution of the full screen preview is really not good enough nor does it load fast enough to do initial image editing and so another high end browser really is required.

On the positive side, this looks like a great raw converter with all the tools that were developed for the scanner software. The user interface in the converter is second to none and the color correction tools are in a class by themselves. Not to mention the fact it has built in IT-8 calibration and is ICC complient.

[ilyons]

>You can bring the Full screen preview up by using "Space Bar-Click".

Thanks, I found that method by accident a few days back and it is useful. However, unless I'm missing something the image must have already been converted from the raw state before the preview image appears as as a high quality preview. With one or two images this may be acceptable but not with 20, 30, 40, etc images. In such circumstances it makes more sense to batch convert all the images and trash the junk afterwards. To be fair this isn't unique to DCPro but it is a workflow issue that many will find irritating.

I'm not sure that there is any round it except for a lot of background conversions and even that will take time an likely impact on other tasks.

[President_LSI]

Raw Data Conversion and Full Preview

The raw conversion works easy when you drag the desired pictures into your Album area. That will start the conversion. Once the first image is done, indicated by a blue LED, you can hold down the space bar and click onto the image.

Watch the movie: http://www.silverfast.com/showmovie/en. ... ersion.mov

[sklocke]

Ian,

thank your for reply.

It would interesting to know camera you are using. I find that Canon D30/60 and 10D images are a lot more noise free than Phase One. However, I must be honest and say that I do NOT like Phase One software at all. I suppose that makes me biased

My camera now is a 1Ds, before a D60. I am not sure anylonger how noisy the D60 is (I thought less than the 1ds), but regarding the 1ds I do find that Phase One DSLR produces an extremely good clean up job. Often it is more like ACR plus Moire checked plus Neatimage. My only complain is the lack of control on this process and the price with respect to desaturation that I seem to pay at times.

Images that bother me most are of course those taken under unfortunate lighting conditions, to some degree underexposed on top and of course with a higher ISO setting like 400+.

I tried one of these with SF DCPRO, P1DSLR, ACR and Canon FVU, In my opinion P1 is leading the pack, followed by a close field.

I had a quick look at GAINE, but that looks like it is producing too soft results.

The Quicktime movies help a lot but there are still important gaps. By this I mean that some start at a point that suggests they are a follow-on from a movie you should have already watched. I can't find the one that "seems" to preceed these. The Job movie is particularily poor in this regard.

Yes especially the links from the President and looking at the files from within the DEMO are very helpful to understand the application.

I've tried for weeks to figure how to obtain a high quality preview can be obtained without converting the image. It seems that it's not possible even though we know that the original CRW file (Canon) contains a high quality JPEG that could be used. Unfortunately I think that JPEG can only be got at after conversion. I'm seeing something similar on other conversion apps.

I followed the presidents suggestion, and space clicked, yes that is what I like to get. However I am wondering why the building of the fill size preview after the "conversion" takes such a long time. On my PC I almost thought that the speed is good until also there this enlarged view building, that happens every time when clicking another already converted image, in overview mode strated to slow down. Great feature, but my 6Ghz PC/Mac has not yet arrived .

BTW: the demo doesn't have IT8 enabled and this makes it more difficult to get the WB right. With IT8 enabed and a good ICC profile for you camera it is much easier to nail the WB.

Well here my first frustration seems to be buried. Without profiles the SF 1ds conversions are somehow off, compared to P1 or ACR. I then thought of using the P1 profiles in SF, BAD idea as I realize now, since they are not at all compatible, the results were really really bad and no tweaking could repair that. I have now ordered the software to try the profiling from within SF, will see where that brings me.

Charles,

I find the quality of the raw conversion of my D1X excellent. I've been running the beta and the color with the it-8 calibration is dead on and the files seem to have less noise in the shadows than the Adobe Raw files I've been using. While I haven't timed the conversion process, it seems in line with the other converter software. No problems with the raw conversion that I can see.

It is nice to hear that you manage well, I am looking forward to that it-8 feature. However regarding the basic conversion quality, it might be in line with the others, however apart from the Chroma noise removal, a P1 special, the Canon Convertor and ACR also do a better moire removal job . I found moire with SF in buildings that Canon FVU has removed (of course not sure what else they removed).

I have difficulty getting VLT to run with Nikon raw NEF files, looks like a memory issue reading thumbnails. I was hoping that would be fixed in the final version, but the demo does it as well. I have to make sure I'm in a folder that has fewer than 15 NEF files in it. Once the files have been read once everything is fine (either by breaking the folders down into 15 file chunks or reading, forced quit restarting, reading, forced quit restarting, like they're being cached and once they're cached everything works well. With over 20,000 raw files, breaking them down into small folders to read is really not an option. If the files haven't been cached and are in a directory with more than 15 or 20 files, the application simply hangs and has to be forced quit and restarted (I'm on Mac OSX 10.2).

Thank you very much Charles for writing this, I ended in a similar funny deadlock with my 1ds files. 1st the application would hang starting, hanging in preview loading (I forgot the exact name). I solved this by reducing the set as you did. Then every time I tried to convert, the application crashed. I solved that by deleting the silverfast preferences. But next came a "Finder under glass" where I could not drag icons anylonger neither in the finder nor the VLT. I solved that by deleting some system icon cache file. Well now it seems to run again. Scary.

Once I receive the full Version with IT8, I might set up a small comparison, right now due to color issues, it does not make any sense to do that.

Mr President, you got my order today, do i really have to wait for a shipped Version in the post, (I can be patient, really).

Thanks again for replies.
Stefan