Colormanagement setting in SF 5.5, embedding profile

[Thorsten Indra]

Hello,

I neeed some assistance in Colormanagement in Silverfast (SF)

I just upgraded to SF 5.5, use it with Photoshop (PS) 6.01 on Win98SE (and soon Win XP pro), with the Nikon LS-2000, incl. IT-8 calibration.

I have been dealing with the logic of the SF CMS settings since earlier version, but still can't quite figure it out - it'd be great if you can help. All the handbooks and pdfs don't solve it either.

- I have chosen and defined a working color space in PS: Tiff RGB (from Linotype-Hell).
- My monitor is colorcalibrated and -profiled, with the profil correctly associated in Windows.
- I am using the IT-8 option and have exported the scanner profile.

problem a):
My goal now would be to tag this generated Nikon scanner profile in SF onto the (*.tif) file I am batchscanning - so that when I pass on this tif file on a CD to someone, they will see and get the same color I saw (in the SF preview).

Trouble is, I can't choose this profile in the CMS menu!
The CMS Scanner>Internal setting is set to "ICS", the relevant profile in the next section is the SF_T (SF-Nikon LS-2000). Internal>Output is set to "RGB".
But when I want to embedd this scanner profile by clicking the checkbox, it wants to embedd my monitor profile, rather than the scanner profile (which is wrong, in my logic...!)

(If I choose CIE-Lab for the output, I can check the "embed profile" box, but none will be embedded.)

What RGB (Internal>Output) is it? Is it possibly the sRGB colorspace?

How do I solve this, that in choosing RGB (under output) my scannerprofile (instead of my monitorprofile) will be tagged with the image-file?

problem/ question b):
What happens if I choose Scanner>Internal Calibration, and I batch scan. Do my files get tagged with any profile at all?

problem/ question c):
What exactly does choosing CMS Internal>Monitor Automatic bring about?

Please clarify these issues. Can you pls reply by e-mail.

Thanks in advance for your help.
Thorsten Indra

[President_LSI]

SilverFast CMS settings explained

a. IT8-Calibration is active
If the IT8-Option is used, your preview and your scan will be corrected with the ICC-profile generated by the IT8-calibration.
If you want to pass the final scan to someone else, you have to embed the internal color space as "Adobe RGB".

Your CMS-Settings would be like this:
? Color Management ?
Scanner--> Internal : ColorSync/ICM
Internal--> Monitor : Automatic
Internal--> Output : RGB

? Profiles for ColorSync/ICM?
Scanner : i.g. Nikon LS 4000
Internal : Adobe RGB (1998).icm

? Embed ICC Profiles ?
Embed ICC profile (checked)
Profile to embed: Adobe RGB (1998).icm

Internal -->Output?

Internal is always the internal (working) colour space (normally Adobe RGB) depending what purpose you need your images for.
From the internal colour space you go to output colour space, which is RGB, CMYK or LAB.

b. Batch scan and tagging?
All tagging will also be true for batch scans.

c. Internal --> Monitor: Automatic?

If the same working colour space is set in SilverFast and Adobe Photoshop such as: Adobe RGB, with the above setting an internal link between SilverFast and Photoshop assures the matching between the SilverFast preview and and final scan in Photoshop.

In order to get more in depth explanations, check out the excellent tutorials from Ian Lyons:

http://www.computer-darkroom.com/sf5_contents.htm

regards

Karl-Heinz Zahorsky, CEO









<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: President_LSI on 2002-02-03 01:10 ]</font>

[Thorsten Indra]

Dear Mr. Zahorsky,

thanks very much for taking the time to reply. The web-site/ tutorials you refered me to actually where most helpful in finally understanding how SF works "behind the scenes". I wish I had known about how the various settings influence and relate to each other much earlier.

An item that yet remains unsolved is how to choose the correct corresponding internal profile in the ICM dialogue of SF.
The working space which I have chosen in Photoshop 6.0 (Tiff-RGB by Linotype-Hell AG) is not available in the drop-down box - only some monitor profiles, ECI RGB and Adobe RGB (1998) are visible.
Any suggestions as to how to make this colorspace available to the Silverfast drop down box, so I can embedd it correctly with the scanned tif-file?


Any help in completing the setup would be greatly appreciated.

Kind Regards,
Thorsten Indra


P.S.: While writing about color spaces: which is the right one for working with photos in photoshop? I have read a good many publications, some advocating ECI RGB, Ekta Space etc., and others saying to leave it at the Adobe 1998 default...

My only interest is that the maximum gamut and quality of my color-slides is best represented in the file the magazines or advertising clients receive from me.

Any personal hints from the scan guru himself on what working space should be favored?


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Thorsten Indra on 2002-02-04 15:53 ]</font>

[ilyons]

An item that yet remains unsolved is how to choose the correct corresponding internal profile in the ICM dialogue of SF.
The working space which I have chosen in Photoshop 6.0 (Tiff-RGB by Linotype-Hell AG) is not available in the drop-down box - only some monitor profiles, ECI RGB and Adobe RGB (1998) are visible.

You might find that the Lino profile is in fact an Input profile rather than a Working Space profile. SilverFast will only recognise working space profiles or monitor profiles. If you go to Photoshop and select Color Settings form the File (PS5.x) or Edit (PS6) you can check if the Lino profile is avialable for selection there. If it is then you should select it followed by choosing Save. This will create a simplified working space profile and once created such a profile can be selected within SilverFast.

P.S.: While writing about color spaces: which is the right one for working with photos in photoshop? I have read a good many publications, some advocating ECI RGB, Ekta Space etc., and others saying to leave it at the Adobe 1998 default...

My only interest is that the maximum gamut and quality of my color-slides is best represented in the file the magazines or advertising clients receive from me.

Any personal hints from the scan guru himself on what working space should be favored?

I tend to stick with Adobe RGB (1998). EktaSpace, etc. are good candidates for archiving raw images but you need to have your wits about you to edit in such working spaces. There is, at present, something of a debate going on on another specialised forum regarding this matter and when the big guns can't agree I think us novices should air on the safe side. As for the magazines - they want CMYK, muti mega byte files. You give them Ektaspace and they'll need "Oxygen" and a "Heart Massage" to recover.

Ian

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ilyons on 2002-02-04 16:40 ]</font>

[Thorsten Indra]

Dear Ian,

thanks for your swift reply - I start to like (and get used to) the idea of forums

Lino profile an input profile - I had suspected that too, but it does not seem to be the case. I have it listed in the color settings dialogue, and am using it as a color space in PS 6.01. The full name: "Tiff (CCIR-EBU-RGB) to Lab" by Linotype-Hell AG.
Your suggested solution though (to re-save it in Photoshop) does indeed make it available in the SF drop down box.

Regarding the color space - maybe Mr. Zahorsky has any more recommendations?

Could you Ian pls point me to the specialised forum?

Thorsten Indra

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Thorsten Indra on 2002-02-04 17:09 ]</font>

[ilyons]

It's a mailing list with web based archives and can be found here

http://www.lists.apple.com/mailman/list ... sync-users

Ian