SilverFast glitches. SC2G, Batch Save (2003/01/08)

[Gregory C]

Since beginning to scan documents (in 8-bit grey) a few weeks ago using our Microtek ScanMaker 5700, I have found cause to use the new Selective Colour to Grey function. It's great; really makes a difference when scanning colour documents in grey mode; but there are a couple of hiccups in the implementation. I have also found a couple of confusing spots in SF.

1. SC2G settings are not saved with Sets.
For convenience, I have designed (and continue to improve) two SC2G settings to use when scanning blue ink on grey paper, or blue and black ink. I also have two setting Sets to allow quick and easy setting of the scan settings. Unfortunately, the setting Sets do not incorporate the SC2G settings. Consequently, a second step is necessary to check the SC2G settings whenever the scanning Sets are switched. This is time consuming and should not be necessary.

Is the SC2G function so new that it hasn't been incorporated into the Sets yet? Please add it quickly. With a few thousand documents waiting for us to scan, I need to be able to use SF with as few clicks as possible.

2. Cannot reset the SC2G settings without opening the SC2G dialog
Option-clicking on the SC2G button does not reset it. Therefore, the user needs to open the dialog, click on the Reset button and close the dialog; three actions instead of one simple click.

3. Batch scanning with multiple frames still shows the Counter as an option
When batch scanning with a single frame and a document loader, the counter is useful (although not very flexible). When batch scanning with multiple frames, the counter is not used. File names for each frame are instead entered directly into the Name field before performing the scan. However, the Counter option is still offered when the Save dialog appears.

Whoops! I think I now understand (it shouldn't be this hard though). If the user leaves the default file name in the Save dialog as BatchPic, the counter is ignored. If the user enters a different file name in the Save dialog, the specified file name and counter are used. Is my understanding correct? If not, the Counter option should not be shown when performing Batch Scans with Multiple Frames.

4. Duplicate names for multiple frames
SilverFast cleverly checks for duplicate names across multiple frames. When it senses that the file name entered by the user already exists in another frame, it beeps and reverts the file name to its original text. This is good, but it took me a while to understand what the beep was trying to tell me. Is there any way to improve the interface in this regard? What about displaying a red icon next to the Name field if the specified field already exists? A visual cue would probably be better than just an audial one.


regards
Gregory

[LSI_Flyvbjerg]

Dear Gregory.

The parameters for SC2G are global and not frame dependent. That is why they are not loaded and reseted together with frame setting.

If you drag multiple frames in the preview and change the settings for SC2G, you will see that the SC2G parameters are applied to all frames not only the one that is selected.

I will bring this issue up to discussion at our next developer meeting, however a change will not that easy as it seems to be.

Best regards

Eric.

[Gregory C]

I discovered that the SC2G settings are not frame dependent just a few minutes ago. I was surprised and disappointed with this discovery.

My wife and I are scanning receipts. Their colour schemes include blue text on white paper, blue text on yellow paper, blue text on grey paper, and even red text on pink paper. The SC2G works wondefully well to bring out the text and hide the paper but I cannot use Multiple Frame Batch Scanning with a mixture of colour scheme receipts if the SC2G settings are not frame dependent. My 'Blue ink on yellow paper' setting for example turns a black text on light blue paper to complete black.

If the SC2G settings are universal, they should not be so difficult to change. I now have four saved settings in the SC2G dialog. It would be much more usable if the settings were available from a popup menu without opening the dialog. We also need the ability to option-click the SC2G button to reset it. If the SC2G tool is too cumbersome, people will not use it other than out of curiosity.


For reference, please answer these questions.
1. What is the maximum value of the adjustment sliders. My 'blue text on yellow paper' has dark blue and light blue at 1000 each and that is not the maximum. What is?

2. How does the value affect the colour? Does it multiply the scanned value or add to it or some other affect? For example, what is the difference between using a value of 200 and a value of 1000?

3. The sliders only allow the adjustment of values in increments of 1. Changing them to a value like 1000 takes a very long time. Is there any way of increasing the speed of the adjustment?


regards
Gregory

[LSI_Flyvbjerg]

Dear Gregory.


Obviously you are using the the gray matrix and not the factors. Here are my answers:

1. There is no real limit for these sliders. Actually they can be between +/- 32768. Your value sounds very very high, I?m more used to values upto 100.

2. I can?t tell you any details of the algorithm. But I can tell you that the sliders have the same function as the brightness sliders (for RGBCMY) in the color correction dialog (for RGB scanning). Actually we are using a color correction to change the RGB colors and then convert them to gray.

3. Shift-Click the slider and the value will increase / decrease by 10.


Best regards

Eric.

[Gregory C]

I thought the Factors were just there to tell the user how much of each colour was present in the scan. Can I use them to make adjustments? How?

My values of 1000 were necessary. If you're dealing with photographs, these values are; as you stated; probably very high. In three of my SC2G settings, the highest values are only 200. One setting is for 'blue text on yellow paper' where the text is not very clear. The only way to get a clear scan of the text from these receipts is to use very high values. From my tests with these receipts, 1000 seems to be very appropriate. Obviously with values as high as these, the SC2G setting can not be used with 'normal' scans. As I mentioned before, receipts made of light blue paper become completely black with this SC2G setting turned on.

regards
Gregory

[LSI_Flyvbjerg]

Dear Gregory.

The gray matrix is one algorithm to convert RGB to gray, the factors is just another one. The formula for the factors algorithm is no secret and very easy:

gray = (red_factor * red_value / 100) + (green_factor * red_value / 100) + (blue_factor * blue_value / 100).

Example:
If you use the following factors: red_factor = 20; green_factor = 35; blue_factor = 45
then the gray value will be:
gray = 0.20 * red_value + 0.35 * green_value + 0.45 * blue_value.


Best regards

Eric.

[Gregory C]

I can change the values of the Grey Matrix. Can I change the values of the Factors? If so, how?

[LSI_Flyvbjerg]

Move the mouse onto the picture with the RGB colors, move to the space between red and green (or green and blue). You can press the mouse there and drag the border line between red and green (or green and blue). The cursor indicates that.

Eric.