How to use masks & SDR?

[harry shin]

1. I have silverfast ai 6.0, using polaroid 120.
2. I've read the entire SDR manual and I understand how to apply the filter to the entire image.
3. My problem is that I can't figure out how to apply the filter to a selected area within the image. I know how to make the selection (ex: lasso tool), however for some weird reason, the selected dust spots (seen as red dots) does not show up within the selection or anywhere else in the image. Then I've done some weird thing to show to red dots again--> press "ok" and then "scan", however the resulting scan does NOT show any change in terms of dust reduction.
4. Can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong? A simple step-by-step workflow would be much appreciated.


Thanks. Harry Shin

[LSI_Support]

Dear harry,
you might have the "corrected-view" button active, check the buttons on the right.

[harry shin]

1. thanks for the reply and tip--however, as stated in my original note, i have downloaded and read the entire SDR manual. i have the right button selected (the one which shows the dust as red). furthermore, i have viewed your quicktime movie on SDR along with the other quicktime movie on how to use... basically the issue i'm having problems with (selections).
2. i don't know if there's a problem with the scanner (polaroid 120) and my silverfast version; i'll try to download the latest version. i noted on the forum that another guy had problems with the polaroid 120 and SDR; resolved with the latest ai version. however, i don't think this is an issue because i have NO problems applying SDR to the entire image--that works.
3. here's my specific problem:
a. prescan
b. crop / auto adjust etc...
c. open up SDR
d. "preview"
e. adjust slider bars until i get the right ratio of dust detected etc... at this point, i can clearly see the dust highlighted via red.
f. since i want to ONLY apply SDR to the sky, i select the sky via lasso. when i let go of the lasso tool--> everything OUTSIDE the lasso is NOT affected via SDR (ie no red dots) but everything INSIDE the selection IS affected by SDR (ie there are the red dots).
PROBLEM: if I click "OK"--> "SCAN RGB", the resultant final image DOES NOT reflect that the SDR did it's job (ie the dust was NOT removed).
PROBLEM: if in the above situation, after making the selection, if i moved to another area within the navigator, ALL of the red dots (for some unclear reason) go away--there's no red dots inside the selection and of course none outside.
g. anyway, that's the issue. i hope that someone out there can give me some basic and SPECIFIC recommendations. but i'm getting the feeling that perhaps there's a bug with my version.


thanks. harry shin

[ilyons]

Harry,

Your workflow is fine.

From what I can see it is a bug in the Polaroid version of SF6 AI. I just tried it on the Mac OS X version 6.01r42 and selective dust and scratch removal dosn't work. I'm getting VERY weird additional grided slection areas that have nothing to do with anything I select and aren't documented in the manual. HDR version works as per the specification.


BTW: posting your question in this particular section of the forum defeats the purpose of having a forum dedicated to the Polaroid scanner - try posting the queries in the right place and maybe next time you'll get a quicker response. Likewise which operating system you're using and release number for the plug-in.

[LSI_Belli]

Dear Harry,

it seems that something strange happens when you use SRD

Ian seems to have noticed a problem too.

So, please tell me which configuration you have so that our developers team can check the problem asap:

- OS 9/X or Win 98/2000/XP
- SilverFast version 6.0.xx
- specific film holder for your SS120, etc.

Thanks,

Thomas

[harry shin]

1. thanks for the various replies
2. in regards to the most recent reply, here's the following data:

a. Mac OS 9.1.1
b. Silverfast ai 6, 1 R 42 (the current version)
c. Polaroid 120
d. I've been using the 35mm film strip holder.
e. as noted before, i can apply SDR to the entire image, but can't apply SDR to a selection and then weird things happen in terms of the selection process.


thanks. harry

[ilyons]

I'm seeing the same problem on:

Polaroid SS120
Mac OS X 10.2.4
SF6 6.01r42
35mm transparency holder (the one that holds 4 individual slides)

Also note that the final processing time for Dust & Scratch is VERY poor in comparison to HDR.

[Doug Nielsen]

Ian and Harry

It appears I have the same problem.

I am running SF r42 on a Blue and White G3 with OS 10.2.4. I have a Polaroid SS120 and I am scanning 645 negatives (B&W). I have 896MB of RAM and Scratch Disc space of at least 5GB.

Earlier I had significant memory problems with large file sizes (645 negative at 4000dpi). Those initial problems seemed to have been fixed somewhere along about version r25 or so. However I still have an apparent memory problem when I try to use the selection feature of SRD. Thomas Belli of Lasersoft informed me in Feruary that Ai/SE 6.0.2r02 would soon be released and should solve the memory problem. That version has yet to be posted.

Doug Nielsen

[LSI_Belli]

Dear All,

I am a bit confused, because the tests I made under Mac OS 10.2.4 were positive: selecting areas with masks works in the preview and in the final scan.

First example:

Preview


Final scan


Second example:

Preview


Final scan


The preview and the final scan seem OK. The correction is performed where it is supposed to be done .

Two points must be checked to have a coherence between the preview and the final scan:
- no changes must be done after the SRD parameters wre adjusted (size of frame, filter, and so on...)
- for MacOS9 users: the allocated memory for Photoshop or SF_app must be sufficient, otherwise strange things happen!

If there is still a problem, please send your Prefs folder to our support team at support@silverfast.de.

Doug, a release 602r08 will be available tomorrow.

Thomas

[ilyons]

Thomas,

Your workflow is as I have been doing. In preview it works. In final scan it takes about 10 minutes for the SRD process to complete even the smallest of selections (this is on top of the scan time), and the final result is that nothing has actually been fixed. I'm using a dual 1.25 G4 with 2 gig of ram and performance of SRD is awful!

Had you obtained your results by placing the slection on a second layer then yes iot will work, but on the base layer NOPE! If you can make it work you are doing soemthing in SF Ai that isn't necessary in HDR (it works as advertised in HDR). SRD is an absolute dog in SF6.01r42 Ai for the Polaroid! When a selection is made SRD is creating a second grided selection on the image (image split into 3 zones). This doesn't seem to happen if selection is on a second layer and it is not of my making. Once this weird grid is created SRD just throws out the anchor and goes for an afternoon snooze!

I'll post you screenshots tonight!

[LSI_Belli]

Dear Ian,

I made a short test with a G4 with an 800MHz processor. The image was scanned at 4000 dpi and is 60 Mb large:
- scan without SRD -> 50 s
- scan with SRD (and many masks) -> 4 min

Yes, it is quite slow, although I wouldn't call it a dog There is surely some room for speed improvement.

In the examples above, you can see that I only used one layer.

Your screenshots will be welcome

Thomas

[ilyons]

Dear Ian,

I made a short test with a G4 with an 800MHz processor. The image was scanned at 4000 dpi and is 60 Mb large:
- scan without SRD -> 50 s
- scan with SRD (and many masks) -> 4 min

Yes, it is quite slow, although I wouldn't call it a dog There is surely some room for speed improvement.

In the examples above, you can see that I only used one layer.

Your screenshots will be welcome

Thomas

The only way I will get anywhere near 50 seconds is with Auto Focus Off and image mode set for 36>24 (35mm slide at 4000PPI = 55MB) - you're cheating

Scan with 48bit mode set and your 4 minutes becomes minimum of 10 and can go up as much as 15 (35 mm slide at 4000PPI = 110MB) - if this was a dog I'd shoot it to put it out of its misery As it was I was nearly able to wash the car - better that than mow the lawn!

I spent hours testing different options - bottom line is that there is NO WAY that I can scan a slection becise the software cancels my selection and turns it into a MUCH larger selection that accounts for at least 1/3 of the image. Everything inside this magical selection created out of thin air gets SRD'd - the application is broken or your doing something to create the selection that isn't in the manual and is how it works in HDR! I've thrown away the prefs. I've thrown away the whole damned folder and installed the software all over again - it's still broken!

BTW: I notice that you are choosing White dust - are you using Negative for scanning??? I'm using Positives!!!!!


Images:

[harry shin]

1. I've read the various posts thus far on the SDR issue & polaroid 120.
2. Bottomline--something is definitely wrong with either: a) what i'm doing b) software.
3. Here's the revised data:
a) Mac G4, OS 9.1, plenty of memory.
b) Scanner: Polaroid 120
c) I just downloaded the latest Silverfast 6.0 2r08 (still have the same problem)
4. workflow:
1) prescan image (negative)
2) crop / auto adjust etc...
3) open up SDR--> "preview"
4) adjust sliders (since I'm scanning negs, I just choose the "white" thing).
5) IF I want to apply SDR to the ENTIRE image--> "OK"-->
"scan"--> IT WORKS!!! the image shows that SDR was applied (ie decreased dust etc...).
6) HOWEVER, if I choose the lasso tool and just select the sky (because that's where the dust is typically most noticable and doesn't have that much detail to worry about etc...) I can see the red dots WITHIN the selection. HOWEVER, if I move that yellow box to another spot within the navigator, the red spots go away--what in the world is going on? furthermore, if I just make the sky selection, don't move the yellow box and just press "ok"--> "scan", the resultant scan DOES NOT show that SDR removed the dust.
5. Thus, summary:
a) cpu has been and is working well--that can't be the problem.
b) scanner has been and is working fine--that can't be the problem either.
c) something is messed up with the software... somewhat. SDR can be applied to the entire image, however for some reason (perhaps i'm not doing something within the workflow), i can't get SDR to be applied to just a selection.
6. SDR appears to be a great tool and thus I would really really like to utilize it--please help.


thanks. harry (by the way, i did allocate plenty of memory to the application--silverfast and i did email the prefs to support)

[LSI_Belli]

Dear All,

thanks for all your comments (and the time spent next to your scanner).

I could reproduce the bug. It seems to happen when the frame is larger than approx. 4000 pixels. Otherwise there is no problem. You will maybe confirm this assumption.

We will try to solve the problem asap.

Thomas

[ilyons]

I could reproduce the bug.

Thank goodness; I don't think I could face mowing the lawn tonight.

Good catch Thomas



Ian